Reading slush has done it. I'm convinced that about forty five percent of the people who submit stuff to me have taken what they consider the best linguistic affections of Dickens, mixed in double handful of the Prose Edda, and thickened with equal parts Tolkien and Homer to arrive at 'their own' literary style. I suspect it has something to do with the way writing and literature are taught, not just here in the USA, but around the world, at least in part. The other part is the lack of value seen in reading, even by some people who write.

The unfortunate problem with writing in those styles, or a combination of them is that language isn't used in the way it was when those were written. Hell, Locke, Bronte, the writings of many of the founding fathers and even The Immortal Bard are difficult to read because just in the last two hundred or so years the English language has shifted enough that it takes even people who read frequently a good deal of effort to wade through the styles of those of the past. And when you get to things like Kant, Homer, or the Edda which have been translated from another language you've added an additional dimension to the problem.

I seriously wonder if any of these folks have read any science fiction, fantasy or other fiction written in the past decade.

From: [identity profile] marlowe1.livejournal.com


Well Neal Stephenson is popular but there are so many books to read. And then there's the new popularity of Deadwood which combines Dickens and Shakespeare styles in the language.


From: [identity profile] retterson.livejournal.com


Neal Stephenson's command of language and imagery makes me weak in the knees, and unable to write for a week.

Mind, I wouldn't dream of attempting his style -- I simply content myself to drool (but not on the books) from afar.

From: [identity profile] tinablack.livejournal.com


I declined the fun of reading slush. It's not that I can't edit, or that I have no judgement. I just have a limited amount of time that I can stand reading things that are beyond reclaiming.

From: [identity profile] cdpeck.livejournal.com

.02


It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

I think part of the problem is that beginning writers spend a lot of time trying to beautify their writing and forget that writing should be clean and easily understood and simply convey a story. Not to take away anything from those writers that can describe the wings of a butterfly fluttering gently in the autumn wind (only with more words), I think there's just a disconnect between some writers' perception of good writing, and the kind of writing that is actually enjoyable to read.

From: [identity profile] onyxhawke.livejournal.com

Re: .02


Actually you've just demonstrated the shift. You were thinking of the start of A Tale of Two cities, and broke things down in the way we speak and write now.

Here's the quote:
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

From: [identity profile] retterson.livejournal.com

Re: .02


Ack!

The paragraph is purposely overwritten because he was satirising bombastic style of political commentators of his day.

Ironic that we should point to Dickens as verbose using the passage in which he's making fun of verbose writers......

From: [identity profile] onyxhawke.livejournal.com

Re: .02


I've tried reading some of his other stuff too. But if you're right, i suspect it was a case of the rhino calling the hippo 'full figured'.

From: [identity profile] retterson.livejournal.com


{Sorry.

Redacted: Lengthy rant regarding how compelling stories, eloquently told have been replaced in sci fi with gimmicky crap like prurient zombie-elves with horns in (un)fortunate places who live in Connecticut and get webfeeds to their stomachs to reduce their craving for human flesh only to find that evil wizard-vampire-aliens disguised as Jehovah's witnesses have jacked the feed -- in the eighteen dimension using zero-point energy -- and only the plucky cowgirl from a small ranch along the Rio Grande can save the day by teaching herself how to surf and knit at the same time.

Sorry. That rant is never far below the surface. Forsooth, but it doth emerge with the merest hint of the slightest provacation.}


From: [identity profile] onyxhawke.livejournal.com


You're clearly trying to make a point, I just can't tell what it was, you've just veiled your opinion in so many layers of insulation its hard to discern what is below. Or wait, are you writing in the Opaque School? I'm _so_ impressed by that school.

From: [identity profile] retterson.livejournal.com


Since I redacted (that is, cut out) my point, I was not trying to make one.

Perhaps that long sentence confused you.

I'll provide the Cliff Notes.

Not posted: long rant about how good stories and good writing in sci fi have replaced by poorly written stories about a bunch of weird-ass shit.

I was mocking 1) sci fi weird-ass shit plots that are favored over good writing and compelling stories, and 2) obtuse writers.

I also structured the sentence purposely to read like a manic rant-- the irony being that I said I redacted the rant only to replace it with another.

There is the Opaque School of Writing, to be sure. But then there's the Obtuse School of Readers as well. Students of both are equally impressive.

From: [identity profile] tcastleb.livejournal.com


Yes, yes it does have to do with how it's taught, like if some poor little SF/F soul is stuck in a university creative writing class where the tenured teacher has a PhD in engineering and has read no creative writing books and writes one book, say, every ten years, and makes the class read The Mayor of Casterbridge by Thomas Hardy and some German experimental book as examples of ways to write, then, yes, we are all doomed, mainstream and genre both. (no, no, not angry about that class at all, la la la. Grrr.)

OTOH, I did have one superb university creative writing teacher who knew a lot about SF/F and suggested far more recent books and those appropriate to our writing. Pity she was only an adjunct. The poor kids take what they're told is good, expecially when they're just starting out, and also to make the teacher happy, I think. Also, some of the standard how-to-write texts used in class are older, and mention older books.

From: [identity profile] mrmeval.livejournal.com

*points*


So did that spear shaker fellow ever write something with a blend of Socrates, Plato and that guy who was always dragging Zeus into his plays?

*wheeee*

I have a copy of "The last picture show" for someone in to literature abuse.


From: [identity profile] onyxhawke.livejournal.com

Re: *points*


Sorry, Slick Willy's stuff was meant to be said not read. Spoken and written language are different beasties.

From: [identity profile] davefreer.livejournal.com


Dry comment ((stirring as usual): are you sure that you have it the right way around, Mike? I get the feeling that it might be that they've _only_ read what has been published in last decade (and often pretty little of it). And watched movies and read School texts (which are mostly very dated). Look at the authgors of "good accessible reads" Bujold for a good eg... when did they start, and have their books changed the interim? right. About major new authors that fits in the "good accessible read" who started in the last 10 years... Eric Flint? (and he started more than 10 years back) Ringo I suppose (I can't read him, but other people do) and who else? Carrie Vaughn? (also been writing a long time). It's not IMO writing that is the problem. It's role models being bought and put on the shelf. All of us are to a greater or lesser extent derivitative.

From: [identity profile] onyxhawke.livejournal.com


While you do have a point about a lot of the dreck thats been foisted off on the reading public in the last ten years, i suspect its much the same in any ten year period. Sturgeons law does apply. The difference between looking for books written since 97 and books between 57 and 67 is that the most egregious garbage has had time to fall into the sewers of publishing history. Some of it sadly has not. Two good writers of the last ten years i can name without engaging in hubris are: C.E. Murphy and Rob Thurman.

I suspect the two are within five years of each other in age, and from what i can tell both grew up in rural areas.
.

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