QOTD: Speciation of the Humans variety

[onyxhawke]

So, what do we think of the possibility, or probability of the current human species being the launch pad for a concurrent race of genetically distinct sentients?

In an undisturbed natural state it takes isolation, time and differences in social behaviors for species to emerge. Theoretically, with the way humans are able to isolate themselves genetically through selective mating, and are thanks to mobility more able to find mates to their taste theres less inclination to settle for whats available and more drive to go for what is desirable. So if a particular group formal (like the Quakers), or informal like people who are left handed Zulu speaking people with bipolar disorder wanted to self select they in theory could.

So what do we think, can it happen? Will it happen? Will it be one split or several?

Comments

[house-pundit.livejournal.com]

If the separation is planetary in nature and we have no warp drive, definitely.

I think it would take a genetic barrier deliberately bio-engineered to speciate, otherwise. Humans just haven't been separated into any distinct varieties all that long.

I think humanity already runs in several mostly distinct sub-strains, but those sub-strains have enough inter-mixture that speciation is unlikely.

There's two ways in current theory to get speciation:

One is where a species--like a plant--is capable of reproducing itself with no partner. Get a polyploid offspring or something and it reproduces with itself, and the offspring can reproduce sexually with each other.

Two is the only possibility for humans without deliberate technological intervention. You have semi-speciation where variety A can breed with variety B, and variety C can breed with variety B, but A and C are infertile with each other. Then B goes extinct, or extinct in the range between them, and bam, A and C are now different species.

Depending on how you define species. Personally, I think the inability to breed and produce fertile offspring (in the vast majority of cases) is the defining line. A-B-C is a gray area.

I say "vast majority" because occasionally you get a mule that is fertile--I'm not sure of the statistics. Theoretically, if you bred that mule a lot, back to whatever species it's fertile with, and those offspring were fertile you could move horse genes into the donkey pool or donkey genes into the horse pool. More likely than not, you'd have to have a fertile mule stallion and breed him a hell of a lot to get a fertile cross animal, because iirc the offspring of a fertile mule tend to be infertile themselves. Or use surrogate mothers for breeding a fertile mule female a hell of a lot.

Anyway, speciation of humans on the same planet who have physical access to each other? Not gonna happen, primarily because enough men are slut puppies who are good at talking unattached females into sex without attaching to them, and who have no compunction about leaving a trail of babies behind them.

Taking an example, even though bipolars tend to marry into bipolar families, 40% of bipolars are hypersexual. You're always going to have a lot of out-crosses there.

Others may not be hypersexual, but strains of humanity that have strong taboos against out-crossing tend to get in wars with other strains of humanity. One way or another, those wars act in favor of more out-crosses.

Muslims and Jews have strong out-cross marriage taboos. Neither set of males has the slightest compunction about out-crossing without marriage. In the case of Muslims, there is no hard barrier to marriage with out-cross females. In the case of Judaism, there is no hard barrier about marriage to out-cross males. In fact, in the latter case, Tay-Sachs creates subtle incentive in the community, and out-cross marriage to shicksas so long as they convert. Even though many Jews consider out-cross kids less desirable as marriage partners, there are enough takers, and enough removal of social taint over generations, that new genes come in.

Human divergence beyond varieties and strains to species, on Earth? Unlikely.

[onyxhawke.livejournal.com]

Ring species is the term you were looking for.

Bio engineering of specific features might become interesting. Especially if laws move towards favoring dna privacy. A group could do something like cause a fusing of the fight and sixth chromosomes, or create a new blood type that was impossible for anyone woman to carry to term if she didn't have it and then 'lock' it to two or three other genes.

[onyxhawke.livejournal.com]

oh yes, and i picked BP with some forethought because it IS genetically linked. Estimates vary, but when both parents have BP the rate for children is around 75-80%.